MW75 suggestion: fix construction jumps

[Darrk]

@Hala

I would definitely fix the ‘science build’ or ‘science/NW delay’ issue. Meaning the fact that if you take planets, NW only adds next tick, so your science stays as is for a whole tick and you can build ultra cheap.

Oooh! An actual fix!
So far this is the best solution to the issue I have seen.

@I_like_pie is that possible? If the market and the attacks can be real time, can sci be calculated in real time without re-inventing the wheel?

[Hala]

@Darrk

If the market and the attacks can be real time, can sci be calculated in real time without re-inventing the wheel?

The second best option is, it takes one tick after getting control of a planet (expo or attack) before you can build on it. Let’s call it: Establishing rulership of the planet.

[Darrk]

@Hala

The second best option is, it takes one tick after getting control of a planet (expo or attack) before you can build on it. Let’s call it: Establishing rulership of the planet.

That would be effective as well.
One of the big issues with the Flip Jumps is that portals and lasers are crazy cheap.

The only drawback there is that attackers wouldn’t be able to laser newly taken planets till the next tick.

Considering the imbalance created by the Flips, I see that as an acceptable trade-off if it is way easier to code for @I_like_pie than your first solution.

[Hala]

@Darrk

One of the big issues with the Flip Jumps is that portals and lasers are crazy cheap.

And the effective protection of in-game NAP’s, which allows for massive intra-family planet swaps, so you can do a huge con build on hundreds of planets, without the risk of attacks.
With ‘unofficial’ NAP’s you never know who’s gonna stab you in the back, but the in game ones are secure.

I like the ingame NAP’s because is also secures wars etc, hence, the science delay should to be addressed.

[Darrk]

@Hala

And the effective protection of in-game NAP’s, which allows for massive intra-family planet swaps, so you can do a huge con build on hundreds of planets, without the risk of attacks.
With ‘unofficial’ NAP’s you never know who’s gonna stab you in the back, but the in game ones are secure.

I like the ingame NAP’s because is also secures wars etc, hence, the science delay should to be addressed.

100% agree.

[I_like_pie]

I’d love to explore this further. Here’s some other background for reference:

• 1 tick delay for constr% or instant NW
• Limit Sci Builds
• Idea of the century! Stop of the science jumps

I’m gonna dig into the code for a bit to see what is viable.

[Hala]

@I_like_pie

I’m gonna dig into the code for a bit to see what is viable.

I’m no developer, but I reckon this would be the least difficult to create based on the current way of the game:

@Hala

“Maybe even easier to say: you can’t build on planets, the tick you took it, because it’s still ravaged by battle or so?”

[I_like_pie]

Not necessarily. The delay itself would not be difficult to implement on the backend, but that’s only half the change. The game makes UI/UX assumptions in several places that planet ownership = buildable. If we don’t handle those correctly, we could fix the con jump issue but also screw up the build flow for everybody.

The NW change might actually be easier to implement, but the problem there is it might also have implications beyond effecting just the con jumps.

Regardless, the easiest change isn’t always the right change.

[Daylight]

Hopefully it can be NW updates as you would expect, rather than the offset tick.

[Darrk]

An immediate issue I see with NW calcs being in real time is:

1. NW Dumping:
   a. Blowing your infra or fleet to render yourself artificially unattackable.
   b. Having other NW drops that force you to be un attackable - pop/sci kill, take and raze (enough of them), and fleet runs.

Top fleets might have to stop mid tick to cut their NW. Not saying that is necessarily a bad thing, but it is “a” thing especially against middy bankers.

Gut says this will help propagate tactics similar to using micro players to set up in cores.

[Vash_the_Stampede]

If you run someone down to where you can no longer attack them how is it the games fault

[I_like_pie]

Looks like it’s gonna be the “Establishing Rulership” change.

Realtime-NW isn’t significantly more difficult, but we’re lacking some technical pieces to keep things performant. It’s still possible, but won’t make it for the next release.

The good news is, it’s totally viable to get the rulership change done in time. I’ve got the basics cooked up, and should have it prepped by end of this week.

One question remains though: can we think of a more concise name for the feature than “Establishing Rulership”? Not that it matters a ton, but it would make it easier to talk about.

“Settling”, perhaps? Something else?

[Darrk]

Subjugate.

[Darrk]

Ooooor:

Dominate.
Remit. (Short, and everyone will learn a new word! )
Control.
Assimilate.
Sway. (k.i.s.s.)
Command.
Influence.
Tyrannize.
Colonize.

[I_like_pie]

Hmmmm closer, but not quite there. Last time this came up, @Hala described it like so:

@Hala

you can’t build on planets, the tick you took it, because it’s still ravaged by battle or so?

Maybe “battle-ravaged”? Here’s a preview if it helps:

[Darrk]

Oooooh!
Like on an in game window?
I thought you meant like what we are are gonna call it generically.

That’s easy.

Civil Unrest.

[Darrk]

[Hala]

Great stuff!

[Daylight]

The idea of people being able to dump their NW like that might introduce some more interesting tactics during war?

The problem I have in my head, atleast logically, is that why does pop deplete and why would there be a battle in the first place when it is passed ownership between family members???

They are part of a forged team, why wouldn’t they passively pass? You wouldn’t have to “battle” for them. So while in theory it would stop science jumps, I don’t think its a sound reason (with regards to the story telling side). Although I like the idea for battles between fams and think that this could be a double thing.

• Instant NW updates. (Stop killing pop maybe?? Might have other severe consequences… TBD) Stops the science jumps.

• Battle ravaged also occurs when you take the planet through brute force from another fam. (Time could Increase dependant on NW difference or fam sizes etc. i.e. level of destruction increases and takes longer to prep for building. May also benefit small fams knowing they have a chance to get planets back before lasers/portals can even start)

[Daylight]

If it had to be implemented that way, atleast make it something like (change of governance has caused all construction to cease for 1 tick) something like that. Just as easy to implement and sounds a little cleaner.