Continuing from this discussion, should our flagship galaxy have limited map?
It got voted down for this round (MW65) but we can and should start discussing the long term merits of this feature for Miilky Way as our primary galaxy.
In theory, there is a defensive gain across the board as location intel would be much harder to attain. This would slow down attackers on average, allowing empires to secure stronger defenses.
A byproduct of this is that it might help prevent farming.
Conversely, sneaking into enemy territory would be much more possible again, so dedicated and clever attackers could pull surprise attacks that aren’t really viable now.
The galaxy’s gameplay would revert to “click fest” type scouting for enemies, which would make attacking far more tedious to casual players. From a UI perspective, this is a step backwards in terms of accessibility.
There’s a possibility that this could more benefit experienced and highly active players over newbies, regardless of skill, as clicking around obsessively would be more rewarding than actual strategic decision making.
Also, Milky Way could regain its status as a more difficult galaxy, instead of just a “normal” galaxy. This is both a pro and a con as it could alienate casual players but could also help MW redefine its culture as a more serious destination for skilled players, as it used to be.
We would likely need to open a 2nd team-based galaxy to offer a more accessible alternative. Some have suggested Pinwheel for this specifically.
Should the limited map be enabled for Milky Way, our primary galaxy?
Does the presence of a secondary galaxy using the normal map make any difference?
Also, let’s keep it respectful and productive! I’m sure we all have some great points to cover.
I’m not going into the dilemma that otteN is describing.
I feel MW should have the map features it has now. I actually think that by disabling all these features, we move to a map-difficulty we have never seen in the map ever before. We used to have IC Map Gen, and VIP features you could basically do all this as well.
I believe it’s fine disabling these features, but some things need to be added in to compensate. We should first build features that make it easy to store and share planetlists within the fam. Check and share plans on a map etc. Maybe add a spell to check a certain area for ‘any foreign intrusion’ or something like that.
I don’t see any value add in just taking away all kinds of features, to make the whole game just take a lot more time (manually checking all systems, or having to perform loads and loads of FTP’s all the time).
If you’d ask me the question with those two options, I’d say leave MW as is, and add a second galaxy with crazy time consuming settings 2. Milky Way has the regular map, and a secondary main galaxy has the limited map.
I do think though we have seen this before, pre-mapgen. That’s how I imagine it when I describe “old school MW”.
You’re exactly right about needing compensating features to combat the tedium. I’ve been thinking about this myself lately and how “limited map” and “click fest” are coupled right now but they don’t necessarily have to be. It’s possible to build this mode in a way that mitigates the UI issues and lets it stand on its own as a proper alternate game type.
That’s a bit wishful thinking right now, but I see us getting there eventually, and running more galaxies as a necessary way to learn through that pain.
I would like to see a spell or op “check system cluster for intruders”, or a unit that you can place in a system to monitor it for intruders, or maybe an option that you can scan systems for intruders if you own a planet in the system yourself.
Something like that would make for real ‘fog of war’
I want to make this point because it has been brought up. There is an assumption that having the map features turned off gives advantage to skill more than activity and will even help semi active players against those more active. It was even claimed that it could bring back the old “fig run days”
Sneakily exploring a system then lasering and stationing until a portal comes in and then running an unsuspecting defenders figs or a bankers ground is not skill. It is a one-sided suprise attack in which the least amount of skill is required.
Checking every system your fam is in manually is not skill…it is quite literally an action that requires activity and if not done every 5 ticks may lead to someone sneaking in on you.
Getting a plist on every enemy attacker in the galaxy every 5 ticks is not skill. It is another action requiring activity and nothing more although if I had to lean any direction it would be this over manually checking systems.
What is skill?
Having a NAP cancellation war in which you decide how to spend your savings to beat your opponent and then using it correctly in order to do so. (Here are your old “fig running days”)
Tick running an attackers figs and sneakily nailing his port when he stations to protect them.
Figuring out how much ground an enemy banker or ressies has and mass raiding him as a family.
Knowing when a NAPed family is saving for war and answering the call.
Taking on a family that is bigger than you and winning.
The map features being turned off allow for less skill and require more activity in my opinion from what the points I have made. In reality it would seem to be more of a facet for allowing smaller families to defeat larger families through surprise. I will never agree with that sort of feature. If a family cannot win through better eco, attacking skill, timing saving or straight skill then they do not deserve to win. Either get better at eco and wars so you can be a “big” fam or understand that you are in the rank amd position you belong in.
I cannot get on right now for 3 hours a day in total and expect to win. I dont expect to win or even really compete if I do that. So you wont hear me whine about getting beat up by a bigger fam in that situation. Farming is a different topic, keep that in mind.
@I_like_pie - Could the map evolve to something like IC Mapgen? Option to chose planet lists and travel distances between those lists? And maybe even get FTP performed by yourself or family members from past 48 ticks automatically available in map?
What happends during expo phase which now days last for weeks, when people are looking for high Iron, endu and octa bonuses, you should see the click fest allready ? But yes abit more clicling on systems in close range to portals would happend I think yes.
but to try keep thread on point and not insult anyone again when playing ultiamte now, for me and how i normaly play its no more of a click fest than it is normaly when playing MW. But i understand why you would belive so, but its not how its turning out to be with the hidden map at all. Do you have stats @I_like_pie on clicks in ultimte per player vs mw?
Clicking and checking your area would be rewarding for those who wana keep their core clean yes, no doubt about it. but the new map actually makes it quite easy, even from a phone.
but why not counter all this, by implementing a way for plist to easy be implemented into the map from op directly to map? you remove the freem yama, avoid the click fest and still gain that pros’s you pointed out.
Indeed, and this is a problem. We want to move towards fewer clicks, not more. I think, however, this is not really a limited map issue but rather with limited map’s current implementation. In other words: limited map being a click fest is a valid concern but ideally only a temporary one.
Yeah this sounds like what @Orion and @Hala were getting at. This is exactly why I think we should use the limited map consistently somewhere, even if it’s not MW. There’s a lot of potential to explore a different game mode here, but it is sounding more and more like it’s too experimental, or at least too unpolished, for our primary galaxy.
i agree with you pie, though most of the voters against never tried it and from my experience right now, i can say the feared consequens of the hidden map is taken out of proportion. kinda sad we didnt get to try it on a big scale, i belive most would change their mind if they tried itm instead of imagining the worst
I wouldn’t want to lose the unexplored filter, I don’t have the time or interest in clicking on multiple systems to look for unexplored planets. The “new” filter was one of the main things l liked when i returned to the game.
I like being able to see the families on the current map without having to rely on an external tool. However i do think it gives away to much information for free.
Possible solutions to this have already been discussed, but i would prefer other things to be worked on, rather than a solution to a problem that only exists if we remove an existing feature.
The problem with IC it is too complicated and to time consuming, only changes that will help improve the game and or level the gamefield and make it more appealing is: More automization.
Like Tif suggested last round, make info from all intel opps available on an #intel tab on the family page
Allow people to automated building for expos.
Same with setting a timer to switch science funding.
Implement an auto-aid function where u can set who to aid what&when. A rezzie can do this with food for bankers and a banker with upkeep for attackers, just to name a few.
Incorperate FleetElite in the game or put it in the HQ leader msg or someone where everybody can see it. A lot of people still don’t know about it. (It explains why it was only passed around with a circle of active veteran players, same with the previous version until Lee made the error of uploading a screenshot right when I joined his chat) http://icfleet.gear.host/fleetElite.html#pgFleet
All the Cons Pie mentioned are true and hc map will only enlarge the gap between top and mediocre players (like Pickle for example, it is not that he doesn’t have the time, he is playing video games the other 90% of the day)
I reference back to my idea here for the solution to a lot of this.
As well, I do believe that the leader and vice leaders should be able to “pull” money and resources from their fam members as a leadership action. This would help prevent the issue of players sometimes not logging on in time to aid out which, lets be honest, can ruin what would have been a good war. Hell, I believe my fam won a war a few rounds ago in which the other fam had a member that had to be hospitalized and was unable to get on and aid out or play his role. They had us outsaved actually and would have made it a fun fight.
There are a lot of different small things that could be done (by small, i mean the effects but not the time/code to implement pie ) to make the game smoother and simpler to play. However, I will never vote for any change that makes the game easier to play. A big part of why this game is so fun is how challenging it is. If anything, I am for making it more challenging while building the simplicity of it.