MW66: Illegal Coordination

[I_like_pie]

You may be tired of reading about this. I’m sure as hell tired of posting about it. However, it still needs to be up for reference.

We’re going to share more carefully, but some basics are still warranted.

• @Sol_Invictus got temporarily banned
• the violation was: illegal coordination with an intent to gain an advantage
  • this is illegal regardless of whether not a formal agreement is made
• He was informed of the specifics privately
• He was also informed about the original post here, concerns about shaming, and its removal
• He is welcome to offer any explanation or defense here if he’d like

This is being posted because of the following:

The Imperial Conflict Rulebook

We’ve made a slight adjustment with regard to disclosing enforcement decisions. It’s been determined that players have a reasonable expectation to know if they are getting involved with a player with a history of violations.

When players cheat, they not only violate game rules, they also violate the trust of their teammates. What’s worse, is that when a player is blocked or deleted, their teammates are indirectly punished as their family loses momentum and sees their time, effort, and funding wasted.

Given this, if a player is caught cheating they should not expect it to remain out of the public knowledge.

Lastly, we are looking at ways to automate this so that nobody ever feels specifically targeted for shaming. This will likely take the form of blocks being present in history on player profiles.

Thanks, and ffs if you know something is possibly illegal please just don’t do it. It’s a lot easier for everybody in the end.

[Luke_Skywalker]

We get it. Bad Sol.

[I_like_pie]

Hey guys, I split the convo into a new thread. There’s some useful feedback and brainstorming there, but it warrants its own attention.

This thread is for Sol to speak about his specific circumstances, if he wants to.

[Luke_Skywalker]

I hope he says nothing and carries on like nothing even happened lol, you know like most of the other cheats around here.

[Prince_of_the_Galaxy]

@I_like_pie

In a way, I think this is ironic. I’ve been asking Pie/the mod team, since pretty much this summer to give transparency related to blocks/bans etc, I asked for it and the IC-team delivered, no problems there.

My main problem is, you gave me a ban and not a block.
I could be wrong, but I think my empire is still active in MW atm? Seeing I am able to defend myself, as you say, that tells me, with a good explanation, you guys could remove/undo the ban? Meanwhile I can be opped/attacked. I am/was my families leader/FA/fambank, in a family with 5 people, your ban also negatively effects 4 other players. Where is the justice in all that if you would agree it was not IA, but I was walking the fine thin line in the grey area? I can understand if the ban is deemed correct, that whatever effects my ban has on my fam, is my own fault. I really don’t think that what you guys stated is IA. If I would think so, I would do as the rest and do it over whatsapp, facebook messenger or via discord DM’s, like nearly EVERYBODY ELSE.

“Lol, I am actually [glad] the mod fam can’t retake, I hope u got a nap with them, if I had known…I had left the TO’s for you :wink”
Really? Come on, that was a joke, diplo works the best with a smile. He replied and confirmed that they got a nap with Pickle. I got free info and the remark about the TO’s? A JOKE, I raise infra before I recall my stats.

“I understand…all I am doing is letting u know there’s no need to worry for me coming after your fam, not as long as I got my eye’s on the mods…we’ll see if that changes this year haha”
I am leader and in a war with a top2 fam, while my fam is ranked 10th. It is in my and my fams best interest to not get into a 2vs1. I didn’t want to NAP his family, I didn’t want it to escalate into a war. My last line was to give miss info, as my intent was/is to fight Pickle till EOR, but he don’t need to know that. In short, this is diplo at its finest.

[…] I dont want IA […]
Who does want IA? lol

“thats pretty much the system/area that got all this started…plus remo leaving his entire fleet for me to DU. Idk, ppl don’t seem to like losing 90% of their fleet? Is this true? Don’t leave stats when I got full moral! xd”
Its nice and all you look into my messages, but the messages are a result from attacks, without looking at the corresponding attacks, I can understand above can be viewed as IA. The info about remo/pickle was already 2/3 days old, so not relevant. Besides that ‘system’ I am referring too, I removed Pickle’s fam who owned like 70/80% of the planets. I had to make it clear to John Deere if he would try to hit that system, I would fight for it and the DU remark, was so he would think twice about leaving his entire fleet on a planet there to portal up. There’s no specifics up there/most info was too old to even be considered relevant/usable.

“that system is really close for me…all those others took me half a day or more to get too…so even if I wanted to…not much I can do about it haha”
I am fighting with him over that system, he knows what system I am talking about, besides he can look at map and see that my raids that he retook, are too far away for me to retake again. If this is already enough for a warning, you guys need to disable any form of diplo and take down the ingame msg from empire to empire. Did I already say I was leader?

I aim to please xd! Small FYI…don’t declare war T-715 NotTheRealRemo of Remo (#6298) Lol this round is so broken. I declare war and my moral costs double, apparently yours is cut in half. AW declares war on LG… only LG is allowed to attack, when AW tries to attack it says they are napped lol … fuck I think Pie broke the game for good. ----------- No IA…just for the lulz
Figured it was something u’d like to know before declaring war on some ‘lucky’ other family

First of all, it was a msg from fakeremo/pickle. He gives info to me about a bug between AW and lg’s fam, if me forwarding that msg is IA, why is it not IA for Pickle?
(because of Pickle telling me that, I knew where LG was hiding, because I knew with what fam AW was fighting)
You say this is to gain advantage? Hell no, it is to not get a disadvantage to another game bug because you keep on changing game mechanics during active rounds (my bonus is, that I knew he wouldn’t declare war (at least it would be highly unlikely) on my fam and he’d also would think twice about declaring on an other fam). I was told this was discussed openly on discord, I wouldn’t know cuz I got a block there. But if that was discussed on discord its public info?

“It’s self defense, now I am sure you won’t declare on me either and vice versa…anyways almost tick! w00t!
This dips further into further illegal coordination. The advice provided is offered in exchange for no war declaration.”

Really? It is just diplo, trying to avoid getting into a 2nd war. First of all, I gave the advise, I am not asking for anything in return?

You are clearly referencing attack location and timing information, and awareness that stating the actual details would be a violation . Again, this is information, even if coded, about timing and location of upcoming attacks.
Tell me, where’s the location, time? You say its clear, I see no coords or ticks? Imo you guys have been looking for reason to ban me. If it is so clear or coded as you say, tell me please, what did I mean with that message?

And you gave me a ban, and like 5h later you come with an explanation to support the reasons for the ban? Why not wait with the ban, till you can actually give me the details. Now you ban me around 9pm my time and come with an explanation at 2AM, effectively forcing me to already reply later. Why didn’t you approach me when you were looking into me, give me a chance to explain? I’m not that difficult to approach, heck half of the time when u r asking for someone to test a new game function, when I am not blocked on discord, I always help out when I can.

“The messages you sent compromised the fairness of the round. It has nothing to do with you personally. Thanks.”

What negative/positive effect did my msgs have on the round, NONE. But its always good to end with a joke Pie, although I am not laughing.

Compromised the fairness? Do you mean because of the mid-round changing of the battle formula with errors, the smiley fam pic fam/ranked 3rd, sneaked into a system, I made 8 attacks, lost 20k droids the other empire lost 30k, I killed my ground on him, while fighting a war. Please explain to me how that is not compromising the fairness of the round, or couple rounds back you added a poll in topic from the top families at war, where they are fed up with the round, to cut the round short, I only found out when it was already voted up. Seeing it was in forum, I assume people not playing MW, were able to vote as well? Yes, fairness and transparency only works top-down. Like a pyramid

[Luke_Skywalker]

[Prince_of_the_Galaxy]

Also whats up with the (again) in the topics title? Do you mean as in regards to posting it again, or did you ban me for IA before?

[Airwing]

I have to agree with sol on afew things here. The diplo game is extremly important if u wana have a good (high rank) round in IC and when ur only able to sign 2 official NAP’s ingame, ur kinda setting the round up for some shady diplo

from the rules it says.

1.3 Gameplay

1. You are forbidden from establishing alliances through other means than the official in-game Alliance feature.

the violation was: illegal coordination with an intent to gain an advantage

if we look at the violations and we decided to be strict about it every fam that has more than the 2 offical nap’s in MW this round are guilty of coordination with an intent to gain an advantage…

as i understand it, its ok to do unoffical agreement where 1 fam is paying another fam planets for peace or to end fighting.

But its not OK, if u msg somone about your plans? than its illegal coordination with an intent to gain an advantage?

So basicly reaching out and starting diplomacy talks, is illegal, couse they basicly containt your future plans…

Excample: " i will stop attacking your fam if you pay my fam 50 planets. " sending this msg is basicly breaking the rules?

What is legal coordination with an intent to gain an advantage?? @I_like_pie
where goes the line on whats ok and what’s not?

[Prince_of_the_Galaxy]

That is kinda the point I am trying to make, the rules themselves are clear, but as many people have already said, this is a complicated game, the game side, learning how to do eco strats etc. and there’s the community with history between players, knowing who you are fighting, means you know their style of play and in my case, players who’d like to return favors when they are in the better position. And it was Xie/Orbit who leaked my nickname outside the family, to Airwing above…while I been msging back and forth with him for a while. I got no problem with Airwing using his diplo skills that get that info from my fam, in that regard, Orbit is the weakest link, so probs AW! I think you all know how pissed I was/am on Orbit, I am pretty sure he knows that explicitly =P

I think I told someone on discord not long ago, I don’t even share my true intentions with my entire family (Prolly Tif, hi @TIF) . Usually there’s only one person who knows the real plan and everybody else I just leave guessing. Ask Munder from last round, think it took me 30 msgs of trols till I told him who I was, only after he told me who he was. Information is key and its double sided, miss info is key too and that is the diplo part, which is at least half of the game.

Not to mention, I didn’t even want to be leader (nothing new there) this and my intention was to rez, when I learned who was in my fam I wasn’t even going to play, till I found out the one inactive was coffee, I promised him to defend his ass if he’d bank for me. But I’ll wait for a reply from the mod team & Pie.

I have high hopes for the ban being lifted like a couple ticks before it ends hehe

[Cells]

Just curious @I_like_pie if your enforicing the rules this strictly (I only read sols @Sol_Invictus test post and not aware of the full situation) shouldn’t you be blocking all of family 98?
98 is impersonating other players and mods witch is against the rules is it not?

Just curious tbh

[Cells]

1. Do not excessively use CAPS.
2. Do not pretend to be another player or a member of the Imperial Conflict staff.

If one rule is not acceptable and enforced shouldn’t other rules? I heard the players invlolved were ok with it so it was allowed.

That being said what rules do the players involved get the final say or even to discuss the matter first? Not trying to stir the pot just think if your going to be so strict on certain rules you should be strict on all rules.

[Lord_Pickle]

We aren’t pretending to be Mods or another member… it is a theme. I think the spirit of the rule was to not pretend to act like staff, or impersonate another player.

[Prince_of_the_Galaxy]

That doesn’t matter, the rules clearly state its not allowed, the part about the spirit of the rule/law may have fallen of the preliminary draft of ze rules? Don’t matter its not up there at this moment.

I think if you were to put that in a poll, most people will say the 6898 theme is against the rules, doesn’t matter if the real players don’t mind their nicks being used, same reason IA isn’t suddenly allowed if both fams agree to share fleetsizes or savings. According to your spirit of the law, that wouldn’t be IA either Pickle

[Lord_Pickle]

TBO already addressed our issue, he said if anyone objected he would have to change our names. He still can if he wants.

[TIF]

Ill add my two cents.
I don’t agree with the decision the mods made on this, but the process looked fine.

Two independent mods made a decision without knowing the player, seem pretty reasonable, it’s one of those rules where you have to draw the line somewhere, but to you need people to make that call.

No system is perfect and Id prefer pie didn’t spend anytime on things like this.

I don’t have any suggestions for a better system, and I don’t think that rule should be removed either, however imo general info shouldnt count.
I know sol and a lot of what he says is misinformation, things like I destroyed units message are more often more of a boast as well as an implied threat that he can do the same to you.

Things like coordinate attacks, planets swaps, offensive ops seem clear cut, but messaged general info a lot harder to make a call on.

Saying all that I don’t have a suggestion for a better system so I’d just accept the decision myself.

[Luke_Skywalker]

It’s a stupid rule for this type of game, should be scrapped asap. Come what may.