Suggestions on how to publicly handle ban data

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My suggestion would be, whatever route we take as a community or admin team, let it be fair and equal on everyone’s accusations, judgments, punishments and lastly the INDEX we spoke about.

If the point of the admin team is to let other players know of their misdeeds in order for the community players to decide wether or not to play with them, then it has to be equal, we can’t pick and choose which crimes to punish and disclose.

This also goes for people being abused ingame. Some players love to harass others when they are losing planets, specially in hardcore :crazy_face:. But this is also a matter that needs to be addressed in the same way as disclosing cheaters. Why?

Well think of it like a school playground, isnt it important for the kids to know who the bully is? The down side of all this is the fact that labelling the bully or cheater in my mind is a form of bullying.

Needless to say mw 65 when hydrop myself and ws were blocked and banned, we did feel targetted and bullied, well not hydrop and ws, those 2 are hard AF texans but my sensitive liberal toronto candy ass felt bullied. That topic still remains up for all to see which is fine because ill be the first to raise my hand and say yes we deserved the punishment but not the displaying of us.

There is a reason why public executions arent actually made public live to see. Its just not right. Justice must be given always with no bias and neutrality and only then is it true justice. Torturing someone after the punishment and having them go through public humiliation is not warranted in the free world. I truly felt the displaying of only SPECIFIC players in the cheater list is completely bias unfair and cruel.

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My biggest issue was not that my name was thrown out there for everyone to know that I cheated. That was not some major concern of mine. The problems were the hypocrisy of it.

Pie makes the post and states that it is not with the intention of public shaming. Then posts follow that were indeed public shaming. For instance, someone makes a comment about wondering how good WS and I actually are if we do not cheat and pie even goes in and laughs and agrees with it. That is by definition public shaming and in and of itself seems to show bias. Not to mention the fact that all these comments are made with absolutely no proof or backing up of facts.

That was the first round that we had cheated in MW (admittedly I did it 2x in HC and got away with it which is why I did it in MW that round). Understandably people immediately bring into question all previous rounds and our “skill”. Fine, whatever…but pie didnt just fail to stop any public shaming (that he claimed he was against) but he also joined in on it.

If people do not wish to play with me because they think I am a cheater, ok…that is fine. The reality is that I do not care to play with most people in this game anyway. I tend to lead my families and I do not have time for egos that clash with mine anyway. So for the most part I do not want to play with you either! lol

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A good way to avoid this is to not cheat. I don’t think there is anything wrong with public shaming, personally. If your actions warrant shame then shame you should receive… shouldn’t need a mod or admin to shield you from shame of your own shitty actions.

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Point proven.

@I_like_pie if this is the type of shaming that you wanted on us then . :clap::clap::clap: but i dont think this is what you actually wanted. Your not a bully. Unfortunately as quoted above, the shaming cannot be controlled.

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I mean I personally got a 3 day ban last year because of over drafting. I didn’t do it to gain an advantage, just wanted to play with friends. I don’t personally feel shame from this and I don’t care who knows. Therefore I am immune to shame, people can try to shame me, but I wont feel it because I know why I did what I did.

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Shame on you pickle shame on you

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@Picklearmy

Your a tough guy! Congrats. :pray:

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@rizz

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

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That has nothing to do with anything. If you do something that is going to bring you shame, don’t fing do it. And if you choose to do shameful acts then prepare to feel shame when everyone finds out. Again just my opinion, Pie can handle cheaters however he wants. But I would like to know who cheated and what their offense was. I wouldn’t want you or Hydrop in my fam, and I would want to kill you off immediately. I don’t want to invest time in someone who has a good chance of getting banned for cheating mid round.

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Pickle have no fear of playing with me lol. I prefer players who are either skilled (not you) or at least know how to take direction (again, not you).

And I do not feel shame for having cheated. I did it and got caught. Don’t really care about either one honestly. I like to point out the hypocrisy of it. Pie said it was not about shaming and that is what was done even by him.

Also, you are making claims that we will cheat based off of 1 round. That shows you are the type of person to have knee-jerk reactions. That is a serious character flaw :wink:

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Your definitely a very tough individual. Amazing.

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Pickle admitted hes a cheater. Yet he wont play with cheaters. :thinking:. That is all.

Lets get this index going @I_like_pie

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Well you had to cheat to compete with my fam in MW (the pie fam), and still couldn’t keep up. Not sure what that says about your skill or leadership. But I will let my many MW wins speak for themselves (pie bring back hall of fame pls :P).

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Thank you.

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We couldn’t keep up? Dude we were far ahead of your fam through cheating that round. You were looking at the rankings a little too literally lol.

Also, your many MW wins? Please get on my level…

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I’m starting to lean more to this as well. Though, to be fair, we ended up doing exactly that here. This ban and your guys’ ban are the only game bans to have happened since we changed our policy, and we disclosed both of them.

I think there are 2 issues here; the displaying and how it is displayed. I didn’t like having to post what I did about you guys either, but I still believe there is value in it, both as a deterrent and as information that players should know about.

What I think our misstep has been, however, is using the forums as the vehicle for doing this. Unfortunately, we don’t have another means right now as doing so “correctly” requires features that don’t currently exist in the game to be built.

What I am realizing through all of this is that we need to reprioritize building those features.

I don’t follow the logic between public disclosure and neutrality. Consider that before we even started discussing punishment:

  1. I made sure that nobody on the team knew it was Sol while we discussed the details. We focused purely on the content of the messages.
  2. We ensured that 2 mods would have to agree that a violation occurred, as a check against a single mod having an axe to grind
  3. We ensured that both mods involved were not in the same galaxy as the offense, to avoid conflicts of interest

Given the above, do you believe that we lacked neutrality?

I can see unfair and cruel, but not biased. So far we are 2 for 2 in disclosing game block details.

I agree with you, and admit fault here. There’s a very fuzzy line between pointing out fair and practical considerations (is this player liable to cheat again? are they actually unskilled if they need to cheat?) vs joining in the shaming.

In retrospect, I do believe I crossed that line by speculating on your guys’ skill. However, I think that your statement below isn’t part of this hypocrisy:

We didn’t post it for the purpose of public shaming. That is still true. However, it was being perceived as public shaming. That is also true. These are not conflicting statements.

There is truth to this. Ultimately what happened in both rounds was a result of players knowingly compromising the fairness of the game. There’s also the situation here with Sol encouraging another player to exploit a bug to gain an advantage.

Are these not shameful acts?

I do think though, that we can and should expose these kinds of violations through a more appropriate medium, such as part of profile histories. We’re quickly learning that the forum isn’t the place.

Despite our disagreements (and some bickering) here, it seems that most of us do want the same thing: a fair and consistent way to handle this information.

IC’s history has long hidden this information, which is a failure to the public player base who should know about these things. Our recent attempts to fix this tipped the scale too far in the opposite direction, including some failures that I have to take responsibility for.

In the end, we’ll reach a middle ground through the lessons we learn here. As long as we’re doing that, I think we’re progressing as a community.

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@HydroP @Picklearmy

The hall of fame is there. We all got our profiles. Mines dating to 2003. Why don’t we lay out the rankings in another thread and see the “many wins”. And lets not kid ourselves about these 50 player rounds. 2003-2013 please.

Exciting!

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win
https://imperialconflict.com/rankings.php?type=topfamilies_size&g=42

win
https://imperialconflict.com/rankings.php?type=topfamilies_size&g=23

win
https://imperialconflict.com/rankings.php?type=topfamilies_networth&g=30

win
https://imperialconflict.com/rankings.php?type=topfamilies_size&g=36

win
https://imperialconflict.com/rankings.php?type=topfamilies_networth&g=50

win
https://imperialconflict.com/rankings.php?type=topfamilies_size&g=53

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Strange you feel the need to make dummy accounts and market aid yourself when there are only 50 players…

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I believe when u laughed along in a post following our display, you and the team (represented) by you failed to stay neutral. Thats a pretty obvious one mate.

When you display crimes or cheating and you allow others to comment and laugh and troll and bully others, then definitely its hypocritical and shameful for a team of administrators who speak of un bias and being neutral.

@I_like_pie
This is an easy fix pie. If you want to display cheaters. Make the thread, post the crime punishment and name. Lock the thread up and keep it above for a week or 2 or agreed amount of time and have it stored in perhaps a ," cheaters" category.

Im a little suprised that it takes this much explanation to show you that this is shaming and this isnt neutral and this is bullying. Why allow others to troll people and shame them? There already caught, punished and displayed. Having them walk around like sersei in game of thrones is pretty cruel. .it shouldnt take this much explaining.

When sex offenders are listed in real life, they carry that crime with them forver, they are punished and they pay the consequences when getting a job etc. They are also listed on a list to inform the public to be cautios which is also fair. But imagine give the public a forum with the list and allow the public to literally shame them to death. The suicide rate of sex offenders would be astronomical. Dont get me wrong im not defending sex offenders and i definitely agree with the punishment. Im just using it as an example.

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