A post was merged into an existing topic: Rebalancing fams & Spots for new players
I like the clan idea.
The first example takes away from friends playing together. But the clan idea is actually pretty cool.
Gives these clans to build some heritage or legacy? What kind of character they want to choose.
Interesting angle but i like it.
I think we all just bit h to much and should let pie use his time more wisely then responding to everyones posts
That just seems silly to me. I am fine with shuffle, but the hybrid thing doesnât make any sense to me. Why should some players be kicked out of their families while others stay? And who or what decides which players are going to be separated from their family? Would those players even want to stay if a certain player is removed? This whole thing just sounds like a mess.
Every fam left at the end of the round was active. There were no dead fams that caused players to log in, look around and never return again. You mostly fixed this problem already with Assimilation. I personally kicked several new/inactive players. I would message them a hello, and give them the discord link, and would never hear back. This change isnât going to fix that.
And nobody was threatening to leave IC over this lol. It is a little disheartening to hear your apathetic feelings on losing some of the players who have supported this game the most. We are just voicing our opinions we arenât being entitled little brats.
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To be fair, this is my own fault lol. As Iâm sure youâve noticed, I tend to save up all my responses and then do a giant wall of text. I just canât help myself! 
@HydroP I like where youâre going, but that wonât happen by next round. That sounds like something we can and should hash out a specific #support:ideas topic so we can figure out the details and prioritize it.
I understand that youâre seeing it as âkicked outâ but I am seeing it as âmaking better room for newbiesâ. Keep in mind that me not playing has value too; I am removed from the bias of being affected by this decision. That is problematic in some ways yes, but I am also viewing the scenario from a more neutral position.
Of course players are going to feel âkicked outâ if stay in fam is something they have known for as long as theyâve played IC. I am not however convinced that this norm is beyond challenging.
These are great points and I donât expect them to be solved right away. Still, I see the benefit of iterating and learning faster being worth the disruption. I get it that it sucks and I sympathize, but I see longer term gains coming sooner, and thatâs difficult to ignore.
Thatâs because those players were already removed by the inactive script. We ended up with 80 players left, out of 107 that ever created an empire. This also doesnât include the players you and others actively killed off. They werenât technically inactive, just non-responsive.
Not immediately, but I think this fix will better balance the game and in turn create a more welcoming experience, which may very indeed fix the problem you decribe.
In the end, either one of us can be right about that. Thereâs no way to know without trying.
And thatâs just in this thread. 
You know as well as I do how loudly players can complain. And thatâs fine, my point there isnât to be âapatheticâ to them, itâs just that players tend to trivialize the experience of newbies. They are treated as âwhinersâ and told they donât know what theyâre talking about.
I always support voicing opinions, but I also prefer to be transparent myself. Donât take any of this discussion personally, I very much value everything everybody is saying here. If that wasnât true I wouldnât be taking the time to respond.
Itâs not that I think anybody is being a brat, just that in general people will tell me personally âway to fuck up the game, you just lost a vetâ and stuff like that pretty much time I make any change, even ones that are widely supported. Iâm sure that youâve seen this.
My point is that I canât let those types of voices drown out the concerns of a group of players that are already very under represented. Apologies if that wasnât clear.
Stop talking with pie so he can open a new galaxy for us
He was saying he wasnât going to play the next round or not, not retire from IC.
I just think setting expectations and then pulling out the rug was unnecessary. My family had room for newbies, we would have welcomed them with open arms. I donât know why they arenât sticking around, but it is not because of family dynamics, at the end of the round all fams were competitive and were engaged in the round and talent was mostly spread out. I am supportive of all changes that bring in new players, I just donât think this is one of them, or at the very least needed to be implemented immediately. Maybe we will see a flood of new players next round because of this change and I will look like a big dummy⌠but I do not see how breaking up already even fams and re-arranging them is going to accomplish that.
Yeah I never said Iâd quit forever or anything like that. I was just saying depending on what direction mw goes in, that I might take a round off. And I was considering taking a round off even before all the proposed changes to MW.
The polls in IC seem to be mostly a waste of time and a formality to make it look like the community has a voice⌠When in reality Pie usually just does what he wants or thinks is best. No disrespect or anything intended. Just my humble opinion 
.
How is this making room for newbies? Youâre kicking out vets, that will just rejoin as random, so all youâre doing is redistributing existing players over existing fams.
And this âchance to stay in familyâ is not a solution to that. Itâs player that have a difficulty entering the game, not a fam.
Iâm really missing how this is re-balancing the game. Youâre destroying a game experience for players in fams now, for the assumption itâll balance the game (you know it doesnât, look at the fams after a reshuffle, you always have fams doing very well) AND that it creates space and better experience for new players - while in fact it doesnât create any extra space for new players, doesnât guarantee to break open âcliquesâ or anything, and doesnât necessarily balance fam power.
Instead of introducing this ad-hoc duct-tape like solution, there are so many ways to properly and adequately address the issues youâre now trying to solve. but youâre not giving us any opportunity to introduce a real proper solution. For example @HydroP had some very good ideas, that would get a lot more support.
I appreciate the clarity. There are other players as well though, and people do make that threat to me publicly and privately pretty often, so perhaps itâs my mistake for assuming here. Fair point.
Not sure how this makes any sense considering that in this thread itself I changed my initial plans for the map based on @Picklearmyâs pretty immediate feedback.
I mean if thatâs really your perception then I could just do away with them entirely. I think some players really take for granted how much the staff prioritizes community feedback, perhaps it would be better to just go back to how it was before when Stefan was here.
Thereâs a lot of effort that goes into this process just for players to make a comment like this when a change doesnât go their way.
I appreciate your honesty, definitely gonna consider whether or not we do these going forward if peeps think theyâre just a sham anyway. 
I agree, but they also wonât happen by MW65 unless we delay the round to an unknown ETA.
We unfortunately canât plan rounds around features that donât yet exist.
Alright everybody, bear with me here. Trying to keep this productive and not just contentious.
Everybody has raised some very good points here and Iâm going to adjust a few things:
On âStay in Familyâ
Iâm no longer going to do the hybrid approach. Iâm going against my gut here, but there have been enough valid points that Iâm open to reconsidering.
This will potentially cause further delay.
On The Map
I havenât yet confirmed if doubling system counts will or wonât cause performance problems. We may have to adjust to keep the game performant, especially for mobile players.
On These Polls
This is likely the last time weâll do polls for galaxy setup. While I do think it is important to get player feedback, I also think a fair amount of players donât appreciate the voice they are given, which is disheartening and very frustrating.
In a weird way though, itâs good to hear that because it reflects a flaw: if players donât feel confident that their input is taken seriously then there is a problem with how the input is collected.
So instead, weâll be opening up discussion for round changes during the round review threads, with no expectation that any vote will have any impact on any round settings. This will still allow players to express their opinions and suggest changes, but will hopefully cause less confusion and frustration for players given that there will be no votes to be overridden.
Thanks for your patience, and remember: we all have the same goal here even if we disagree with each other. Iâm glad that so many of you clearly care about the game, but letâs try to keep our feedback productive. Hyperbole and emotion tend to derail otherwise useful conversation. Iâll do my best to curb my own frustrations as well.
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I donât think anybody is saying IC was better when Stefan was running it.
Throwing a fit saying maybe we would like the game better if Stefan were running it and taking the polls away that have nearly 50 votes because one or two players say you donât take them seriously sure do seem like emotional statements that otherwise derail useful conversation.
But I made my point, I support most of your decisions, but I will not support everything. If I see something developing that I think is a bad idea I will say so. You can just ignore me if it is easier.
Lol iâm not throwing a fit, I really think he has a point. I donât mean IC was better when Stefan ran it, I mean specifically not having votes (as when Stefan ran it) might actually be a good thing.
The polls are well intended but have become another huge source of headache, and @YoungWolf_WiLd is hardly the first person to flat out ignore this part:
Note: Final results will be based on the vote tallies but may not necessarily reflect every winning option.
If he and other players (even if a minority) fail to see the value of the voice they actually have, then the polls are not fulfilling their purpose. If I see such players as not appreciative of the opportunity they are allowed, then just the same the polls are not fulfilling their purpose.
Managing expectations is a tricky thing clearly, and Iâve heard this complaint often enough that I really do question whether or not the polls have made things better or just added operational overhead for me and confusion for the players. I think focusing on discussion over votes may be better for everybody.
I also honestly think IC needs a more authoritarian direction than what the polls provide. I strongly disagree with this walk backwards Iâm making on the stay in fam thing, and feel it is costing us valuable time and learnings and will be a detriment to the gameâs progress this year. I felt the exact same way about the backlash when I legalized UA, but I caved there too.
Design by committee is not a particularly good way to go about anything, and I feel like Iâve given the players too much influence over my own direction for the game. Iâve been far too nice about this, and hearing players like @YoungWolf_WiLd talk about how itâs all a sham anyway really just reinforces that point.
If players feel like the polls are a waste anyway, then why I am spending the effort bothering? Might as well yank em and at least we can all stop bickering when I override specific poll results, because poll results wonât exist.
Players have come to expect far too much control for the main galaxies. There is a sense of entitlement that I think is bad for the community, and we need to adjust.
Can you just ignore forum for a bit and start mw
Mw is waiting on the email. My discussion here isnât delaying it any.
Rest assured, this will be the last round this stuff is up for so much back and forth anyway.
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Maybe a few different galaxy styles will keep more ppl happy and quite so you can do your thing and get ic2 done
Pie
There are some vets out here. Who dont feel this way about you.
I think its a spoiled bunch playing now. People have forgotten what it was like under mastermike and stefan and lizzy. Pretty much there way or no way. Discussion??? Ya right.
U couldnt even talk to lizzy in some of these tones that we do. Either wed be muted or the thread conveniently moved. Lizzy was good dont get me wrong here but lets not kid r selves.
Pie your a benevolent leader and are admired for what you have done. I think your mistake is giving everyone an opinion. And now people think its the Senate floor where everything needs to be debated. Suggestions are well and good but to go as far as call pie a hypocrite? And someone authoritarian? Etc etc is a little too much. Specially coming from wild.
Wild remember the spartan family? Well we had it much harder then didnt we. I mean when shit happend we couldnt run to the admins like this? Or let alone get a mod as fast as pie is available now.
Anyways not nut hugging here. Just feel bad for r dude pie. Love u foohon! Dont let these brats faze u!
Get the strap lol! Tell us how it is!
we all love the pie! pie for queen! and Arsy for mod! TBO for most dishonorable 
Thanks for the support @HellRaizeR. /me throws a pie @ @Airwing.
I think my statements may have come off as more dramatic than I intended. Things will be fine, weâre just adjusting our processes is all.
Anyway, enough beating this into the gorund. Milky Way 65 has been created!