It's time we started a dialogue about OHs

Yes; I am currently under the peril of Octarine Hurricanes but this is something that I have been mulling over since my return to the game - OH didn’t exist when I used to play.

So i’m just going to go out and say it: Octarine Hurricanes in their current form are overpowered.

I don’t think that it is right that one; lets be honest, averagely equipped Pax can take down an entire family’s bankers to less than half of their income for 6 hours. Sometimes even a full 24h if they’re coordinated and active enough.

A Partax with their 70% magic bonus needs a fraction of the wizards to cast successfully on say, a revalon or custom race. That person defending themselves from enemy spells needs a vastly higher amount of wizards to defend themselves than the Pax does to make the ops. Additionally, its even more disproportionate when adding extra wizards to improve defence - the amount needed for the pax to build to keep “above defences” is almost negligably lower.

So not only is it completely overpowering in terms of how much income it can wipe out for extended periods of time; but it is economically much more difficult to defend yourself than it is to be the one on the offense. I get that this is imperial conflict but at the same time; this one feels a little unbalanced and with you effectively out of action for 6 hours; demoralising.

Now what can be done about this? A number of solutions discussed previously on discord are as follows:

  • Reduce the effectiveness of the op itself from 20% CF production to only 5%
  • Reduce the “snowball effect” of the op and have it only able to hit once
  • Limit the amount of times that the op can be used either through increasing the morale needed to cast or by introducing a cap-per-24h system like we have with building explos

I can’t be the only person who thinks this and I know people will say “just build more wiz lol”; because as I have already outlined; that isn’t really a deterrant. I could have taken the time to work out the maths behind wiz increase costs banker v opper and their effectiveness but I think the point is obvious enough.

Maybe I have some strange disposition against Wizards and magic anyway; I always felt that the use of magic to achieve things (in games, films etc) was cheating. I think this may stem from the distaste left in my mouth when in Lord Of The Rings: The Return of the King, the good guys are getting hammered by the Orcs until Gandalf the White turns up and blasts a load of magic effectively winning the war and saving the day. Just felt a little OP/Cheating to me at the time lol.

But anyway yeah. Discuss. Thanks for listening to my TED talk.

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I do agree it’s super overpowering.

I have always liked the idea of a staggered wear off.

Tick 1 = 20%
Tick 2 = 17%
Tick 3 = 13%
Tick 4 = 8 %
Tick 5 = 4%
Tick 6 = 2%


We can consider the other options for the long term, but both of the options above would be relatively quick fixes.

I see no reason we can’t change/test this in prep for the next rounds.

How about a combination in the middle? Cap it at 2, each at 10%. That would provide the same general result but still keep the ability to multi-cast.

Any dissenting opinions, or recommended adjustments to the requested change?

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My only thoughts would be to compare the impacts of OH on a cf banker vs e-storms and hypno on a pop banker.

The main reason (as I recall) of adding OH to the game was to bring some counter to the CF banker, and bring back the relevance of partaxians since they had become obsolete with the passing of the pop banker

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Yea and you can ruin a pop bankers round with estorms… You can get a pop banker making negative for weeks potentially …At least an OH will wear off and you are still making some income.

At best I say go with TBOs idea or make it harder to cast.

So that may also be part of the point; is it right to be able to do that to a pop banker? Just like it is with OH to CF banker

Not saying it is right, but would be good not to force everyone into 1 mode of banking… pop banking is already negative due to short rounds

Octarine hurricane is very powerful i feel like that brought pop banking back a bit, coupled with the fact of no research builds.

But pickle is right its only temporary.

Want to be safe do what pop bankers do switch pax is one option.

People do need to defend themselves same could be said about a banker not knowing how to build lasers or portals and losing half planets. Sucks but it can happen.

I think you’re all looking at the wrong part of the equation.
OH’s is a pretty fair spell, and it was required, because before OH there was nothing you could do about CF bankers. It’s not the OH that is overpowered.

Partaxians as a race is overpowered. And I’m saying this, while I love playing Pax. It’s the best role you can have a in a fam. An active pax in the right fam can win the round for the team.
70% magic is crazy. Without too much investment, a pax can CPFF all portals, OH any CF Banker, kill the entire pop on a pop banker. It’s nuts.

If you ever want to fix this, I guess Pax needs to be nerved, not OH.


@Hala I was just about to say the same thing.

I have talked about before how overpowered Pax is as a race. In reality, the only way to prevent OPs as a banker is to go pax. Yes you get better income and pop growth with Revs, or customer, but you are almost guaranteed to be opped into oblivion.

Pax in its current form almost completely dictates the way bankers play the game.


These are great counter-points, thank you everybody.

If nerfing is the route we want to go, we need to assess Partaxian race points relative to other races. This is really exposing a larger problem: the value of standard race buffs need to be normalized. This isn’t just a Pax issue.

The question now is, do we want a short-term change to OH while we work on reworking Pataxians? Fixing this “properly” is hard to plan for given other priorities, but the OH changes described are viable.

Nothing wrong with Partax as a race, OH is too OP. Agree with either reducing its effectiveness gradually or making it harder to cast. I don’t see how that has anything to do with assessing Partax race points. Or am I missing something?

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Partaxian’s aren’t OP only because of OH, they’re OP because they use more race points than other races.

Wardancers, for example, use 205 points where Partaxians use 240.

OH is a small part of a larger issue.

Is this a larger issue?

  • generate false info is worthless 5pts
  • no fear for a non attacker race is dumb 5pts
  • spy on target when you have vision 5pts
  • investigate portal not really a pax thing 5pts

Here’s a very quick 20 point nerf.

You could balance all the races out in a evening and still have time spare to pretend you have no spare time.


Yes, it’s a larger issue.

The races are still imbalanced against each other with underpowered ops removed. Your suggestion doesn’t solve this.

Nullify magic- operation last 6 ticks - prevents spells from being cast. just be the first to cast

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I’m making the point that it is not a big job. I could do it over a few cups of English tea.

I’m aware. I’m making the point that your change wouldn’t actually fix the problem.

Fixing things properly is not a simple as you are claiming.

Pie, in all my years of playing I’ve never heard a player say, ‘god damn these races are imbalanced’.

Can you put your graphs away, nerf the OH and when you’re ready to fix up the races pm me on discord.

There are literally players in this thread saying the races are imbalanced.

This is an open forum. If you are confident that you can fix our races over a few cups of tea, you’re welcome to create a thread in #ideas. No PMs needed.

Feel free to show us how it’s done.