Battle update testing: dev access for everybody

The brainstorming discussion is complete, and the code is now on dev.

This will be going out for Milky Way 76 . That’s in 1 week.

We need help testing.

I’ve been testing as I’ve been developing it, and the @Release_Team has been testing for weeks now, but we need more testers. This will have a huge impact on the game, and hopefully fix some of our more serious imbalances, but we need to test it as much as possible to make sure it feels right.

The Development Server has been opened all players, including non-Patreon subscribers.

It is running 1-minute ticks, and all units are free.


  1. The main loss calculation has been greatly simplified.

    • All phases now share the same base logic, although phase-specific modifiers are still present (more on this below).
  2. There is no longer any inherent defensive advantage. If units and bonuses are equal, losses should be equal.

  3. The Air vs Ground battle (Phase 1) now respects unit attributes and the 30% loss cap. This was not the case before.

    • Worth noting here: This significantly nerfs lasers. We can adjust this if we need to, but it will be in the form of modifying atk/def attributes on bombers, transports, and/or lasers. We can also just let them stay nerfed. Suggestions are welcome.

Phase-specific modifiers

There are not new, but their implementation has been cleaned up and they can now be modified much more easily.

  1. Random loss multiplier
    This creates a range that losses can vary between.

    • Air vs Ground (Phase 1)
      • Lasers: between 90% and 110% of original loss.
      • Transports: between 100% and 150% of original loss.
      • Bombers: between 100% and 150% of original loss.
  2. Loss cap
    This is the maximum % of units that can be lost in a given phase.

    • Ground vs Ground (Phase 3)
      • Droids: 15%
    • All other phase and units: 30%

The setup above is to re-create what we’re used to. Although we can experiment with other setups, for now we just want to test with what we know.

Remaining changes (configuration)

The underlying logic is done and will likely not be changing further. If we do want to adjust things now, it will be in the form of:

  • Random loss multipliers
  • Loss caps
  • Unit attributes

Let’s get it!

We’ve set up a contest for testing. See the following thread:

The above contest has closed, and we’ve re-opened the “free units” test galaxy.

We’ve also updated the simulator to take configurable unit stats:

Please go nuts. :slight_smile:

When discussing results, please do the following to help us make sense of it later on when we see it:

  1. There’s a link at the bottom to share your specific test. Please copy and paste it.

  2. If something is different than you expect, please be as specific as possible. Let us know which specific numbers are different than you expected, and why.

Also, this is still a work in progress. Nothing here is final yet. Suggestions on unit attribute adjustments are welcome and very much encouraged.

Spent some time looking into this with a couple of people.

The final unit attribute setup can be found in the simulator here.

30% Atk Loss Cap
15% Def Loss Cap (Possible Racial to reduce losses i.e.(def) cannot be combined with +atk bonuses.

Reasoning: These are the current caps and no one has issue with them, raising the defensive cap just means a banker will be getting raped inside just a few attacks, their defensive position being positioned and prepared is reasonable to assume they would suffer less losses either through early retreat or defensive barricading etc.

Remove defence boost from atk racial.

Reasoning : Attackers get sufficient advantage from their boost in attack, with regards to expected losses, an extreme example which wold occur…

60k atk droids vs 60k def droids, both wardancer, atk has 70% mili, def has 0% mili:

The attacking fleet destroyed 9000 defending droids.
The defending fleet destroyed 1176 attacking droids.

8:1 ratio is absurd when they only real difference is 70% military and the attacker has initiative, removing the def boost from racial would still give a roughly 4:1 ratio, giving enough advantage for taking initiative and investing in science.

Battle Resolution would need reworking, possibly look at using fleet qty, means attackers can use their bonuses to raid bankers without taking the planet, but also increases the likelihood of a banker keeping a planet. (Perhaps this could be based on the % of losses the attacker receives.)

Further to discord discussion…

Defender does not have any inherent advantage when everything is equal.
Using my attributes, that results in ~ 5% loss on eitherside. Rather than the instant cap loss we currently see.

So what options does an attacker have to increase their chances.
-Increase fleet size on the fly.
-Increase military defence.
-Choose an ATK bonus for race.
-Choose exactly where to strike.
-Choose when to strike.
-Choose whether or not to press ATTACK.

What options does a defender have…
-Increase fleet by as much as possible.
-Increase military defence.

Bankers have no choice but to sit there and take a beating, so run with your scenario, the banker hits cap.

1 Attack : 70% Fleet Remaining
2 Attacks : 49% Fleet Remaining
3 Attacks : 34% Fleet Remaining
4 Attacks : 24% fleet Remaining
5 Attacks : 17% Fleet Remaining

Does this look like a fun scenario for anyone, on top of losing their planets they have no fleet and the attacker is likely using somewhere around 1/2 the fleet size. So the attackers qty losses didn’t cost the same, on top of that your attacker can afford huge con bonus in comparison with the NW burdened banker.

15% cap for defender would mean: 85%, 72%, 61%, 52%, 44% after 5 attacks, which to be honest I still see as too easy and thats how it is now, lowering it further or allowing defence bonus would make things more interesting.

are there any updates to the new battle logic? I have been messing around with the simulator and it seems very bugged … for example attacking a defending portalled planet with 2m figs vs their 1m figs, I lose 0 as the attacker but the defender loses 300k? The defenders couldnt shoot down a single fig?

And then there is this … I am attacking with 2 million droids only, defending empire has 1 million figs, 1 million ground … I kill 300k figs… somehow kill 0 ground, and only lose 150k droids? Figs are so much more expensive, why would anyone even use figs at all under this new formula?

This new formula doesn’t make sense logically and also is open to exploits. I just hope we get it ironed out before it is implemented into a real round.

I attack with 5m ground vs 5m air and 5m ground…
I lose nothing, but kill 50000 defending fighters, kill 5000000 defending droids.

^why is 5m ground able to do so much damage and not lose a single unit? I feel like I am going crazy here.

you deleted everything from the attributes box?

Thats using your suggested fleets with the current logic.{ ++++"Laser"%3A+{ ++++++++"groundattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"grounddefence"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"airattack"%3A+40%2C ++++++++"airdefence"%3A+8 ++++}%2C ++++"Bomber"%3A+{ ++++++++"groundattack"%3A+10%2C ++++++++"grounddefence"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"airattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"airdefence"%3A+2 ++++}%2C ++++"Fighter"%3A+{ ++++++++"groundattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"grounddefence"%3A+4%2C ++++++++"airattack"%3A+10%2C ++++++++"airdefence"%3A+10 ++++}%2C ++++"Soldier"%3A+{ ++++++++"groundattack"%3A+5%2C ++++++++"grounddefence"%3A+6%2C ++++++++"airattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"airdefence"%3A+0 ++++}%2C ++++"Droid"%3A+{ ++++++++"groundattack"%3A+6%2C ++++++++"grounddefence"%3A+7%2C ++++++++"airattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"airdefence"%3A+0 ++++}%2C ++++"Transport"%3A+{ ++++++++"groundattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"grounddefence"%3A+5%2C ++++++++"airattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"airdefence"%3A+5 ++++} }&bv=3&submit=Run+Simulation

Rerun with the unit attribute I ended up on, although I had other suggestions to change which dont change with that.{ ++++"Laser"%3A+{ ++++++++"groundattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"grounddefence"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"airattack"%3A+40%2C ++++++++"airdefence"%3A+800 ++++}%2C ++++"Bomber"%3A+{ ++++++++"groundattack"%3A+1000%2C ++++++++"grounddefence"%3A+40%2C ++++++++"airattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"airdefence"%3A+38 ++++}%2C ++++"Fighter"%3A+{ ++++++++"groundattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"grounddefence"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"airattack"%3A+10%2C ++++++++"airdefence"%3A+190 ++++}%2C ++++"Soldier"%3A+{ ++++++++"groundattack"%3A+5%2C ++++++++"grounddefence"%3A+140%2C ++++++++"airattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"airdefence"%3A+0 ++++}%2C ++++"Droid"%3A+{ ++++++++"groundattack"%3A+6%2C ++++++++"grounddefence"%3A+100%2C ++++++++"airattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"airdefence"%3A+0 ++++}%2C ++++"Transport"%3A+{ ++++++++"groundattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"grounddefence"%3A+45%2C ++++++++"airattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"airdefence"%3A+190 ++++} }&bv=3&submit=Run+Simulation

oh the link that was sent to me already had it erased … thank god I thought Pie had truly lost it :smiley:

1 Like

Still seems bugged/ non logical …

5m droids only vs 50m droids

  • The attacking fleet destroyed 3000000 defending droids.
  • The defending fleet destroyed 525000 attacking droids.

why would an army of 5 million droids be able to kill 3m droids of a 50m army? and only lose 525k themselves?

A 50m army should wipe the floor with a 5m attacking army, not suffer 3million in casualties while only killing 525k.{ ++++"Laser"%3A+{ ++++++++"groundattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"grounddefence"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"airattack"%3A+40%2C ++++++++"airdefence"%3A+8 ++++}%2C ++++"Bomber"%3A+{ ++++++++"groundattack"%3A+10%2C ++++++++"grounddefence"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"airattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"airdefence"%3A+2 ++++}%2C ++++"Fighter"%3A+{ ++++++++"groundattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"grounddefence"%3A+4%2C ++++++++"airattack"%3A+10%2C ++++++++"airdefence"%3A+10 ++++}%2C ++++"Soldier"%3A+{ ++++++++"groundattack"%3A+5%2C ++++++++"grounddefence"%3A+6%2C ++++++++"airattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"airdefence"%3A+0 ++++}%2C ++++"Droid"%3A+{ ++++++++"groundattack"%3A+6%2C ++++++++"grounddefence"%3A+7%2C ++++++++"airattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"airdefence"%3A+0 ++++}%2C ++++"Transport"%3A+{ ++++++++"groundattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"grounddefence"%3A+5%2C ++++++++"airattack"%3A+0%2C ++++++++"airdefence"%3A+5 ++++} }&bv=3&submit=Run+Simulation

best start point, but would be interested on your feedback using the attribute in this one…


Good lord this is confusing, guess I should have been paying attention from the beginning lol … I guess this formula does make some sense with the “ignore cap loss removed” box checked…

For example if I attack 50m droids, I will do the same amount of damage if I attack with 5m or 50m … only with 50m, I lose a lot more. That should not be the case, it doesnt make logical sense.

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Yeah the unit attributes on the basic calc are way out of whack, so you just hit cap every time, so by having a larger fleet all you do is ensure you lose more.

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So what’s the situation w these tests? Something still look odd? Need adjustments to the attributes?

Btw, I am all for removing the cap. I do not think it is a good feature as it was previously implemented, and do not think it is a great feature to carry forward:

Or simply put: what is the cap trying to achieve, and can we achieve it through some other mechanism?

@DustyAladdin made a decent argument for keeping the cap in, but the problems you guys are seeing now (losing more for sending more with no change in defender loss) is inherently tied to the cap being present, it’s just far more obvious now.

The cap is configurable, and we can turn it off. Given the most recent tests I am under the impression that we should do so.

Yea, with the cap on, I attack with 5m droids vs 50m droids … the expectation is the 5m droid attacker is going to get crushed

but the result is the 5m attacker destroys 750k and only loses 300k. The 5m attacker should lose a lot more than the 50m defender.{"Laser"%3A{"groundattack"%3A0%2C"grounddefence"%3A0%2C"airattack"%3A40%2C"airdefence"%3A800}%2C"Bomber"%3A{"groundattack"%3A1000%2C"grounddefence"%3A40%2C"airattack"%3A0%2C"airdefence"%3A38}%2C"Fighter"%3A{"groundattack"%3A0%2C"grounddefence"%3A0%2C"airattack"%3A10%2C"airdefence"%3A190}%2C"Soldier"%3A{"groundattack"%3A5%2C"grounddefence"%3A140%2C"airattack"%3A0%2C"airdefence"%3A0}%2C"Droid"%3A{"groundattack"%3A6%2C"grounddefence"%3A100%2C"airattack"%3A0%2C"airdefence"%3A0}%2C"Transport"%3A{"groundattack"%3A0%2C"grounddefence"%3A45%2C"airattack"%3A0%2C"airdefence"%3A190}}

If you click to remove the cap … the 5m attacking army kills 300k of the 50m defenders and the defending family destroys all 5m of the attacking droids … which to me makes perfect sense.

and for a closer battle … 5m vs 6m

  • The attacking fleet destroyed 300000 defending droids.
  • The defending fleet destroyed 360000 attacking droids.

this also seems right to me.