Any thoughts on Brett Kavanaugh?

Opinion isn’t the right word. She’s not saying “in my opinion he tried to rape me”, she’s saying “he tried to rape me”. Attempted rape has an objective definition; the crime itself isn’t a matter of interpretation.

Not at all, that’s why I don’t think she should automatically be believed. I’m not saying that what she says is true, only that what she says should be considered in an investigation.

Right, but if you didn’t report it, does that mean the guy didn’t try to rob you? “I didn’t report the crime” isn’t evidence that a crime didn’t happen. If I witness a murder but keep silent, does that mean the crime doesn’t exist? Of course not. The same is true here; “she took a long time to report it” is in no way evidence that it didn’t happen.

I’m not saying she is 100% telling the truth, or that she is 100% lying. I’m saying that given the significance of the position being considered, it’s worth taking our time to investigate the matter.

Do you think it should be investigated further?

well there is alot of the story she dosent even remember…as i understand she has 0 evidence, its a strange time to come withe the claim if you exclude the possibilty of this being a power play of some sort or her an attention whore :stuck_out_tongue: … alot if it stinks tbh and if it stinks there is normaly a turd close by … :stuck_out_tongue: Is it realy that far off caling it an opinion? and if she truly belives he tried to rape her, is there a possibilty she is wrong and missunderstod the situation?

i do think it should be investigated further.

Ok so he is my 100% biased opinion for your reading pleasure.

First, lets discuss the new claim about what happened in college. The woman that was stated as accusing Kavanaugh admitted to multiple people that she was unsure if it was him or not. She has no supporting evidence or witnesses and therefore this is a case that would never have even seen the light of day if it were not for Ford’s claims against him currently. Due to the extreme lack of evidence and knowledge of that night (according to the claimant herself) this is an easy one to toss away as having little credibility on it’s own. If you should choose to tie it in with the other, well we will discuss the credibility there.

The Ford situation is something that took place 36 years ago. 36 years is an extremely long time to try and remember much in the way of details which is why I am not surprised she says she doesn’t know the time or place that it occurred. This would make sense especially if she attended many parties so I will not fault her for her lack of knowledge on the subject.

She apparently did not remember that it was Kavanaugh either from what I have gathered and did not until she seen a therapist (psycho-therapist to be precise) in 2012 and that helped job her memory. Now, lets keep in mind that studies have shown and proven psycho-therapy to be quite inaccurate and unreliable. So the claim can be made off the research numbers that this takes away credibility from Ford in saying it was Kavanaugh. However, I am willing to admit that also leaves room for it to possibly be true still.

Now lets discuss supporting evidence or witnesses. So far there have been no witnesses at all or any evidence to support Ford’s claim. I do find it odd that even her best friend at the time does not know of the party being spoken of and I would find it very difficult to believe that a 15 year old girl was going to parties without her best friend/friends. That being said, it is entirely possible, just not plausible.

On top of this we now have the timing to consider. It has been explained why she didn’t tell anyone at all of what happened for all those years until 2012. I do find this hard to believe that she simply bottled it all up and never mentioned a word of it to anyone at all. But hey, again this is possible. However, why didn’t she bring it to light in 2012? Or how about at the height of the MeToo movement? Why it is that she sent a letter to Feinstein AFTER Kavanaugh was being nominated for Supreme Court Justice? These are all legitimate questions that have a nasty odor to them.

Wouldn’t the perfect time to speak up be right after speaking with a therapist? Or while MeToo was booming and people (especially politicians) were falling left and right? Was it ok for him to be a Circuit Judge and not a Supreme Court Justice? Are we allowing sex offenders to hold certain positions in the government but not others?

What it looks like is that she did not care that he was a Judge but as soon as he started running for Justice, her being a democrat, decided she could not stand that thought and came forward hoping to keep her name out of the media and still tank his nomination. Which brings another question to the front. If she didn’t want the story out in the media, how did it get there? Only a tight circle of democrats knew about this! So basically what you have is an instance where the democrats decided to put aside her own wishes of anonymity and utilize the media to try Kavanaugh for this incident.

Then comes in the next set of issues. She has avoided speaking to the media and the Senate. Why? Her claims of being afraid of flying were thrown out there by her lawyer and yet she spent quite some time in Hawaii suggesting that she does indeed fly. As a matter of fact, from all appearances she is being coached and manipulated by her lawyer who seems to be taking orders from the democratic Senators.

Timing is an important thing to take into consideration when determining someone’s credibility. It is quite obvious that the democrats are using this as a political move to block Kavanaugh’s nomination and I would say it to be quite clear from the evidence that is Ford’s goal as well. With a complete lack of evidence or witnesses this is a case that has very little chance of actually ever being determined as to which side is being truthful and which isn’t. So all we are left with is things such as timing of the issue and comments made from both sides. If credibilty is good on both sides at the start (and I don’t see why it wouldn’t be) then what actions have been taken to determine credibility since?

Well, the flight issue seems like a blatant lie to me. And the fact that she would lie about that drops her credibility in my view. The fact that she used the exact timing of his nomination is another thing that would drop her credibility for me. Then the fact she is being controlled and coached by the political left drops her credibility even more.

Now top all of that off with this. If the nomination were blocked due to this. Would the democrats still push the issue or would it simply disappear into the background? This is important because it tells you what the motivations are. And if the motivations are not to help a woman who was sexually assaulted then that destroys credibility.

Also, the way our laws are setup are to protect those accused of something until they are proven guilty. This is a case that is unlikely to find Kavanaugh guilty which begs to question why he should not be nominated. Sure, do an investigation if you want. But all it ends of being is a he said/she said and by that rule he would be found not guilty of any wrongdoing and his nomination should still go through as he would be deemed innocent of the situation.

I am not saying that Ford was not sexually assaulted. I am not even saying that Kavanaugh was not the one to do it. But if you cannot prove that he did, then you cannot crucify him for it. What if he really didn’t? Are we ok with destroying the lives of innocent people if that means getting the bad guy every now and again? That is not how our political system works. In our political system we understand that sometimes a bad guy will get away with things if that means not punishing innocent people for crimes they have not committed.

No, in my opinion this is a situation that Ford hoped she could destroy a nomination and help her party without her name ever showing up in the media. When it was obvious that would not work, Feinstein leaked it to the media to force her hand and now they have pressured Ford into a situation she actually wanted to avoid all while knowing they cannot prove it ever happened. They are relying on the media and the liberal left to crucify this person just enough to either block the nomination or push it off until midterm voting where they can toss it out entirely.

This is not just dirty tactics (although it is quite dirty) it is also morally wrong to do this. You should not use someone else’s pain and suffering for your own political gain and that is exactly what is being done.

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This is all I’m personally interested in. As @Xenon pointed out, this would in theory clear him. So why then, do repubs seem so interested in rushing things and avoiding an investigation? The obvious answer to me is that they don’t actually care about what is right for the country and only want to serve their party’s interest. Party over country in a big way.

A lot of what you said makes sense, and paints the dems as opportunistic which I don’t doubt at all. However, the same can be said for repubs. Is it possible that republicans aren’t concerned with the truth and just want to see a confirmation that benefits them regardless of whether or not it is deserved?

Both parties are handling this poorly imo. In the end though, what legitimate argument is there to not have the investigation?

This is why using the FBI is worthless to use and it comes from a [Democrat that I personally agree with].

Well the FBI has no jusrisdiction firstly. This is a state/local issue.

However, after the Anita Hill case that the FBI did an investigation on, there is now precedence.

Funny thing though, Joe Biden (who opposed the Senator during that issue) blatantly said the FBI report meant nothing. That it would hold No conclusions and could not.

So you have the democrats calling for something now that they outright said held no value at all back then.

Why does it now?

Because politicians are hypocrites, democrats and republicans alike.

Still, not much of a reason to not do the investigation. As you mention, there is precedence.

I would agree with you that this isn’t for the FBI if not for said precedence. So given that, and ignoring politicians’ on both sides’ tendency to flip flop, why shouldn’t we go forward with an investigation?

Because there is no evidence to investigate? They dont know so much as the year or neighborhood. What can they possibly find out?

The purpose of an investigation is to find evidence; you don’t start an investigation because you already have the evidence of the crime that you’re looking for. That wouldn’t make any sense.

That’s exactly what an investigation would determine.

The logic of “We don’t know what we’ll find, so we won’t investigate anything.” makes no sense.

There are plenty of people to talk to. They can subpoena Mike judge and make him say under oath if he remembers being in a room with Brett doing what Ford accused him of. There are plenty of people from high school and Yale that they can ask if he displayed these types of behaviors. There is his roommate from Yale who said he thinks Brett is capable of doing these things, who they can ask to elaborate - which would very likely lead to many more people to talk to.

There is plenty they can investigate :stuck_out_tongue:

But ZERO they can PROVE so it’s a waste of time

Wouldn’t that be for the investigation to determine? Isn’t it the exact purpose of an investigation to find out whether or not something can be proven?

Law enforcement only investigates when they have something to go on. They don’t just run off and investigate a case because someone screamed something. And this fits the defimition of a cold case making it even harder.

Not saying they cannot investigate this. But all they will get is character testimony in the end. Both republicans and democrats would blast both ford and kavanaugh character through proxy of friends and classmates and it woukd still end up a he said she said.

Maybe I am wrong. But without any type of ev8dence of wrongdoing, it is difficult to find an avenue to block kavanaugh nomination.

What I mean is this…if I get a group of people to accuse you of murdering someone and I dont have a time, place or physical evidence of any such murder. Am I supposed to succeed in getting you tried for murder? You cannot take testimony as the only evodence in a case where you literally have no other evidence.

The problem I have with the #metoo movement and all these other things, is that social media has now been weaponised and EVERYONE is a bad guy who should have their life/career torn apart before appearing before a judge/court.

Take Louise CK - From what I’ve read he exposed himself to women and “did things” in front of them.

This is VERY different from rape, but social media decided he was guilty and calls for him to never perform again were happening left right and centre.

Clearly, rape and exposing yourself are two very different things on the scale of sexual misconduct to assault.

With this Brett guy, the allegations are attempted rape and indecent exposure.

Those two things are in no way good…

BUT - he hasn’t been in court, there’s been no arrests and no judgement has been passed.

However, here we are all talking about the claims in the news and social media as if they’re true.

I’d just like to see more due process here rather than Social media deciding people’s guilt.

Pie you just don’t comprehend I guess the part where the judiciary already did the investigation thus no need for fbi that even they say is not their job, joe Biden says it does nothing to prove anything. The investigation is done, over, completed.

Again, nobody is trying to through Brett in jail - I think the statute of limitations on this would be 15 years from the time she turned 21 - they are just trying to prove whether or not he has the moral character to be a Supreme Court Justice for the rest of his life.

Biden has also admitted that he handled that case very poorly, and frankly with it essentially being replayed right now I think ruins any chance of Biden 2020.

That’s the point though: it isn’t for you or I to say there isn’t anything to go off of. That’s the specific purpose of an investigation to determine.

I do agree though that they shouldn’t investigate just “because someone screamed something”, but that isn’t what’s happening here. That more closely describes the 2nd accuser, which I agree by itself doesn’t stand as strongly.

I agree; hence the need for an investigation. Nobody is presuming anybody’s guilt here, just seeing the need for a closer and more thorough look.

If it happened that there was actual concrete evidence, an investigation is the only way we could discover it. What you are suggesting is that instead we say “we don’t have sufficient evidence of wrongdoing, therefore we shouldn’t look for any evidence of wrongdoing”.

This isn’t for a petty crime; it’s for a lifetime appointment. We should be erring on the side of caution here.

I do see this in wider discussions about the issue and the mob mentality is concerning. As far as I can tell here though, nobody is presuming any guilt. The investigation republicans seem so adamant on avoiding is the exact due process that would clear his name.

I comprehend it just fine, but the judiciary is not the FBI. The question here isn’t whether or not an investigation has already happened, it’s whether or not a more thorough one should be had. There is already precedent for this.

Can you cite the FBI saying it’s not their job? I’ve only heard Trump say this and his word is not credible. Again, there is already precedent here.


As far as I can tell, the best argument here to not go forward with the investigation is “it’s a waste of time because I personally don’t see the point”, which is a fairly weak argument with regard to vetting a lifetime appointee.

at the end of the day I have learned very WELL from [my fellow americans] from the past during Bill Clinton and the women that made accusations and he even paid almost 1 mil to one of the women and at that time the [my fellow americans] including [the respectable] Hillary when she did all she could to disparage the women so even if he is guilty I DO NOT CARE.

All that matters is POLICY and since I agree with his POLICY I want him on the bench.

Sorry to all [my fellow americans] but you TAUGHT me well that crimes do not matter only policy does.

So I could care less if they were actually true (which I do not believe) I would not care, SORRY if that is offensive, well actually I am not sorry as far as being sorry I am sorry as in I dont care :stuck_out_tongue:

That’s what I suspected really. I think there are many others that feel this way but are less honest about it. I appreciate your candor.

Still, policy is affected by moral character, so imo the fact that some are ok with this possibility reflects their own values and priorities.

Personally, I’d rather we not have attempted rapists on The Supreme Court, which is why an investigation to rule out that possibility is important to me.

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Still, policy is affected by moral character, …

and his moral character for almost 40 yrs shows he is not guilty.

no one in their right mind thinks he would have done this stuff then never ever since then tried it anymore

and also, if these lying women really had it happen they would have told the police back then when it happened but since they waited for this exact time proved beyond a doubt to me they are LIARS

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