Why Have You Killed IC?

WHY HAVE YOU KILLED IMPERIAL CONFLICT?

I re-joined today in hope of playing IC.

However after only a short time clicking around I have become so disgusted with the changes that have been made that there is now no point even playing IC anymore as the changes not only seem 100% pointless but they only serve the top players.

1: Family Forum: I quickly discovered the family forum doesn’t even exist anymore, which is perhaps the dumbest and most stupid move I have ever seen on IC.

Having read the forum it seems certain top players have basically said…

“Hey guys, like you know I have been playing IC for many years and I have you all on my discord anyway, so us elite top players don’t need family forums anymore right? I mean sure this choice will cripple new or returning players but really I don’t care about them because I already have all the top players on my Discord anyway, so screw them lets get rid of the family forums and scare away all new players”

This now means if you want to play IC then you HAVE to use Discord!

Keeping in mind CHINA can’t even use Discord, so that is an entire country unable to play IC now thanks to this epic choice.

So lets look at this from a NEW PLAYER point of view.

Option One: I started playing IC and it was really cool because I posted in the family forum and people noticed my post and they not only answered my questions but they also sent me loads of aid.

Option Two: I started playing IC and there was no one speak with. I quickly learnt to play IC I need to have Discord, so now to get any help I have to download a new program (that only certain countries can use) and then I have to message everyone in the game to add them to this new program. Yeah I have to admit it was super confusing because no one on discord actually uses their empire name, so in this case then I have to message loads of people, have to get their Discord details and then try and figure out who the hell everyone is? I mean before when I played IC I just popped a message in the family forum and could clearly see who replied :slight_smile: but that simple, easy, user friendly system just didn’t cut it for the top player group.

Now just to play IC I have to mess around with Discord for some hours. But hey as long as the changes helps the tops players.

Join our epic server… 58 people on Discord… LOL!!!

So we have established Discord just totally sucks if your a new player or in China.

Totally pointless change that has made the game much harder.

2: Guide: I then clicked into the guide which again seemingly doesn’t exist anymore? I mean now all you get is some silly click through box that doesn’t tell you anything, it doesn’t even explain how to play the game.

Honestly if I had never played IC before I’d not have a clue what to do? How would I even learn how to play?

3: Delete: Okay there is no point playing this game anymore, whoever has taken over the game has broken it big time. Okay then I’ll just delete, with a grand total of 58 people on Discord its clear the game is now JUST for the 58 top players, the clicky super cool Discord kids who have all known each other 15 years, and basically if your not part of that group… GOODBYE!!!

Oh well I’m not part of that group, guess I’ll delete then.

Oh wait I can’t because that option doesn’t even exist anymore?

OVERALL:

I strongly suggest you have a huge warning on the homepage that says:

“WARNING YOU NEED DISCORD TO PLAY THIS GAME”

“THIS IS NOW A DISCORD ONLY GAME”

PS - If your from China tough shit you just can’t play at all because you can’t use Discord, so screw you.

I will also point out giving criticism isn’t a crime, especially where its due.

You have made terribly bad choices for this game, choices that go against new or returning players and simply pander for your group of um chums on Discord.

I see IC is now a game of 58 people on Discord, all old friends / all who have played countless rounds of IC / that the current changes have homed the game to be for those 60 people only.

You say I have a lot of criticism? You have earned that. You have taken a game that did have hundreds of players before and smashed it down to a small group of clicky Discord people that you know.

Your changes have made it impossible for new or returning players to start playing.

Sure I find it really strange that this game was recently taken over. I half expected to come back and find thousands of players / mobile players / new units / better map / new spells or ops.

I assumed that with modern day technology someone would have taken this game and made it 100 times better, but honestly what have you done?

Taken away the family forums / killed the guide / made it impossible to delete races / made it impossible to delete from the game.

This has been a game homed perfectly for the 60 players on Discord.

This now not a public game :frowning:

Basically unless your on Discord and already know the top 60 players you are screwed. It just seem each change has been made to suit the top players.

Top players don’t need a guide… Cool lets get rid of it then.

Top player don’t need a family forum… Cool lets get rid of it then.

Top players don’t need to delete a race from their list… Cool lets get rid of it then.

Top player won’t delete from the game… Cool lets get rid of it then.

Pander, pander, pander to the top 60 people with 0% thought for new players.

You say I give criticism.

I say after all your changes you have turned it into a 3 man family with 0% family forum.

You call that a success do you?

With all the modern day technology at your fingertips and you call this a success?

Where are the new players? Oh yeah obviously there are NONE because there is no guide / no family forum / not even an explanation on how to play the game.

Guess I expected HUGE CHANGES by now.

I fully expected that by now getting new players would be the main goal, but really it seems the only goal is to pander to the top players and make it better for them.

For the record every time I have played IC I have donated which is more than I can say for some people. Think I have had VIP on virtually every round I have ever played, the last time I paid for VIP I had to contact a MOD just to make it do anything.

But sure I have always donated, on this account and my old one.

The criticism is well given! You have taken a good game and made it cater for only the top 60 players, all your mates on Discord.

Sure that is sad, certainly not the future I had expected.

But no problems I’ll just not play or donate.

Keep your 60 player bum chum Discord list.

However please do me one favour and please add to the homepage.

“YOU CAN ONLY PLAY IF YOU USE DISCORD”

“THIS IS NOW A DISCORD GAME”

If you do that then at least your warning people.

I sent you a message on Discord

1 Like

Thats a lot of criticism for someone not willing to learn new things. Most of the things your complaing about has been bagged for by the community.

I maybe wrong but I believe we stopped using forums because it’s less organized and harder to use then discord. I remember family forums always being so spammed you could never find anything, many many pointless threads.
On discord you just make a few channels on your private server and can constantly stay organized and chat easier.

I also believe this was mainly a player decision not management. Even when we had the forum it was not used. I had never even heard of discord until a few years ago when we started using it over whatsapp. Players found better options then the forum🤷‍♂️

You cry a lot…

Bye :wave:

Welcome back to the game Driven, some of your points are actually fairly valid.

  • mIRC and family forums were replaced by discord but there is definitely room for a more advanced ingame chat feature. As you said, Chinese players cannot use discord so in theory would not easily be able to play this game.

I also agree with your point that you have been away a long time and would expect to come back to more changes and modernisation, which sadly hasn’t happened.

I also agree that the guidance for new players is almost non-existant.

However, IC is a dying star and no-one wants to put energy into a project with 50 players, that’s just the bare truth.

3 Likes

Yeah Discord is great… Unless you live in China!

You have effectively taken out one of the biggest countries in the world because they can’t eve use your precious discord.

I have also used Discord before and honestly it was shit.

No one uses their empire names and you can’t tell who anyone is.

Plus why should a new player piss around for hours adding you all to Discord when the family forum worked perfectly well?

Personally I never had any issues with the family forum at all.

Like your main argument is that…

“But, but people use to spam the forum”

If memory serves the leader or vice leader had the option to delete threads.

If you were and active leader / vice leader like me your forum wouldn’t have been clogged up with old posts.

Personally I think it was a silly move.

That is my point of view… I do understand you will disagree with that because as stated your already using Discord with everyone added.

If you was in my position you would see using Discord simply to achieve what the family forum or PM system did is just a waste of time.

There are 2 simple points.

1: You want to use Discord, then COOL BROTHER you use Discord, YAY!!!

2: But hey if you don’t want to piss around like that then don’t worry because we have the family forum as well YAY!!!

Oh no wait we don’t actually have the family forum.

Eeerrmmmm so guess your screwed right?

Either download Discord or F-OFF.

What was wrong with both options? Oh right family forums don’t serve the top players only who already have packed Discord lists.

Honestly this is just another way for top players to control the game, nothing more.

Well using Discord has stopped anyone from one of the biggest countries in the world even playing, and honestly you call that a GOOD MOVE for a game?

My vote is that like before you should have BOTH.

You want to use Discord then cool crack on.
You don’t want to use Discord, no worries mate use the family forum.

1 Like

Thank you OrBit.

Voice of reason right there!

My God, only 60 players left :frowning: what the hell happened?

Honestly I’d have been here sooner if I knew things were that bad.

Guess I better stay so you have someone to kill.

WarChild

1 Like

I dont think, in the history of the game we’ve had players based in China.
So yea, we could add a whole new feature for a player group unlikely to join. It would be better to make improvements for new players from US and Europe

3 Likes

Hi @Driven_UK, thanks for your feedback.

There’s a lot of valid critique in what you’re saying but there’s also a lot of assumption and hyperbole which gets in the way of productive conversation.

For starters, “Why have you killed IC?” is ignoring that IC was dying before I took it over. That’s why I took it over. I will spare you the details of IC’s dark ages but the short of it is that our previous owner was MIA and even the mod team rarely heard from him, let alone the players.

The evidence of IC’s decline is in the numbers: by the time I took over for IC we had already gone from 11,000+ players a year to less than 500. Although we have continued to drop further from that down to less than 100, the hemorrhaging of the playerbase was already happening.

Although I certainly have made some decisions that haven’t worked out so well, the alternative imo was worse: there is always a risk in making any change but there is also a risk in not making any changes. I’m not sure when the last time you played was, but many of us here remember those days where we the site would go offline and we wouldn’t even know if it was coming back.

So no, I don’t think I killed IC. I surely have mismanaged some parts of it as the new owner but I think if things stayed as they were with the old owner, IC would either now be offline or sold to somebody who would make it a pay-2-win game with micro-transactions and loot-boxes.

Forums

To other peoples’ point, the forums became a ghost town. The problem with maintaining them is that it was not automated and required manual work every round to set up a feature that nobody used. This meant that my limited dev time, which is already scarce, would be used to do work that would offer benefit to very very few players and most of the time no players. This means that I can either:

  1. Spend time working on a feature that nobody uses.
  2. Spend time fixing bugs and working on features that benefit everybody.

It has nothing to do with “top fams” or being a “pointless change”. There is always a reason for any change we make and also any change we don’t make. I understand that it might not be your preference: but if we have to choose between spending dev time to benefit a few players vs benefiting all the players, it’s an easy choice to make.

Guide

I can’t argue with your point here. We had started working on an improved guide but it never got finished. We should bring back the old guide even if we aren’t entirely sure of its accuracy, because its absence right now is probably worse.

Deletion

People rage-quitting over wars became a problem, as it creates a double-hit for the family impacted: they lose an active player but they also lose planets, infrastructure, and resources. This was incredibly bad for small families in particular.

So we removed the ability to do so, and instead if a player decides to leave the game, when their empire goes inactive the family can take the planets even ignoring any defense, while preserving all infrastructure regardless of nw disparity, and also gaining any resources the inactive empire had.

This has been incredibly helpful for families that encounter a situation where a player wants to delete. It may not be perfect still, but vs what we had at the time it is a clear improvement.


IC isn’t “a discord only game”. Fwiw I have been communicating with my family only using ingame messages. The fact that IC players choose to primarily use discord was true even when we still had the forums.

It’s not that different from when we had the old IRC server and you really would do better by joining your fam chat. Some families even relied heavily on voice chat.

You are 100% correct that criticism is not a crime, and I appreciate your perspective. However I’d like to ask that you make fewer assumptions about whether or not things are pointless, were done without thought, or were done to cater to the top players. None of those things are true.

Again, to be clear: this happened before I took over. Again, this is why I took over.

Some things I have done:

  1. Redesigned the entire website so that mobile play is actually viable.

  2. Created a new map that is based on the same modern mapping tools that are used by modern companies.

    • This came with support for custom maps, a successful feature in its own right
  3. Fixed security issues so that player data is safer than I found it

    • This included a HUGE effort to fix underlying account code and data handling so that IC is actually compliant with modern legal requirements.
  4. Fixed the old owner’s morale formula change that was wildly hated

    • fun side-note on this one: players at the time were absolutely angry that it was taking me so long to do this. a good example of “doing nothing” being a problem
  5. Added the ability to send mass-explorations

  6. Added the ability to change race mid-round

  7. Added long-term history

    • raw game data from before I took over is not available, but now we have full data and history for every empire and family going back to 2016
  8. Added the ability for anonymous play to be a round-specific option that players can vote on

  9. Added better moderation features to combat trolls who were using racist words and images for their names, empire banners, fam pictures, etc.

  10. Fixed the page titles so that if you play IC using multiple browser tabs, they actually show the page instead of just “Imperial Conflict”

These are just highlights and/or recent changes, and 2 of them (mobile play and new map) are things that you even mentioned.

There is much, much, much more that has been done since I took over. Much of it at request from and in cooperation with players who help test out new concepts, provide feedback, and help guide the direction of the game.

A good example:

The 3-man family was a player-based decision, which came after some rounds of larger families that the players didn’t think worked very well.

Small families present challenges and to be honest they aren’t even my preference. That’s the point: the players have some control over what they get out of this game because I listen to them, use modern day technology (custom maps) to support their requests, and work with them to try to keep them happy.

This was previously unthinkable when we had an owner who players couldn’t even contact directly.

So yes, we are struggling with numbers. But no, we aren’t killing the game. The game was already dying: we’re trying to keep it alive.

3 Likes

If you want to save the game
Stop large families such as 80 and 75 killing off smaller families like mine
They aren’t even capping planets just making unhabitable
New players and returning players don’t want to play when larger fams just pick on smaller fams rather than fight each other
I remember back in the days with Milky Way ect where public forum would talk about the large family fights
Not the top fams jerking each other off and just picking on smaller fams full of new and returning players

Fix the networth gap for attacking and stop large fams ruining the game and making players leave
That’s your problem

2 Likes

That’s definitely a problem, but it also isn’t a new one. Even at IC’s height, farming was putting players off.

You are right though: the power disparity is just too large and the race to the top ends with top fams being too untouchable.

Small fams need more opportunities and large fams need less comfort.

Less comfort ?
How about introduce a system so when your to high a nw compared to smaller fams you can’t attack them
Make large fams fight each other which then lets smaller fams close the gap
I returned for this round and I won’t be back now
80 and 75 the biggest pussies around where an individual player in there fam is bigger than my whole fam and they are just killing planets and not even capping them

Fix the game now or lose everyone

Yes, less comfort. You don’t agree that large families have it too easy?

We have that feature you described but it was found to be exploitable which was even worse and we don’t have dev resources to fix it, so we disabled it.

Fixing the game “now” is not possible, I don’t have time and we don’t get enough donations to run a game 100% for free and also immediately solve a problem that IC had had since it started. I want that as much as you do but doing so requires time and money, and I can’t afford to put much of either into IC so the best we get right now is simply keeping it online and trying to help players out when we are able.

We’ll implement what fixes we can, when we can. If that’s not fast enough for you then so be it. We literally do not have another option.

Donations are welcome if you’d like to support an online game that you are able to play for $0. Donations will allow me to put more time into the game, and make what you’re asking for more viable.

nope im done with the game so another player gone…
with the feature of smaller fams not being able to be targeted just add the clause that if the smaller fam does any op / spell / attack or anything then they are fair game for 24 hours or some time frame…not just farmable
or add the ability that attacking any player who is significantly smaller that a chunk of their overall fleet dies…so large fams dont take out small fams that are significantly smaller

1 Like

Your first idea is the feature that we already had. Like I said, the problem isn’t that we need ideas: we already know what to do.

The problem is that making those changes requires a human being to actually write and test code. Game features can’t just magically appear because somebody has an idea: they require somebody to do the work, which we don’t have.

Right now all we have is the money to keep the game online, and even that is actually happening at a loss.

Thanks for coming back and giving the game another shot. Your feedback is appreciated.

@Chowda The game already has features which cap large families attacking small families. But this is a game and games tend to have winners and losers. Some rounds you do well, some rounds you dont. Negotiation is also important. However what doesn’t help your cause is throwing around insults, including the ‘c’ word via ingame messages.

I suggest you go fix yourself and come back a nicer person.

2 Likes

fix myself? fix the game dude
80 and 75 killing a fam where an individual player is larger than our whole fam is a CUNT act
and the fact those little faggots got all upset and cried to moderators makes it funnier
the game is fucked when you moderators protect your mates in large fams
YOU ARE RUINING THE GAME
stop large fams killing off smaller…plain and simple
but your all to busy jerking each other off
enjoy the shit game cunty

The moderators have not taken actions to protect anybody in-game. They don’t have the ability to even if they wanted.

Regardless, the game doesn’t need more toxicity, that’s for sure. You have some valid points but if you’re unable to express them without being hostile to our community then indeed maybe this game isn’t for you.

I heard a rumour about a family calling themselves ‘‘Balancers of the Galaxy’’, trying to make the game more fair for the smaller families. Perhaps they will be able to make the game more balanced in future rounds.