Restore the old limit on spells and ops

This is a very interesting idea @Vindi . ops based on morale which is dependent on size of defender and opper makes sense to me. Similar to how attacking morale works.

The other issue in infin is that if people have decided to bank, the only time they really get to do anything other than infra ( and have fun in my opinion) is when they’re opping. Remove that and infin will become more boring in my opinion.

I think that people SHOULD be able to op someone into oblivion. But that the duration should be limited.

I manage to take down a popper? Sure…but 3 days and he should be back up and running assuming he has defenses. No reason a banker should get held to negative income for 4+ days.

How we do that is the interesting part…limit how low a pop can go on a planet? Say 20k? 30k?

I think that would solve more issues than anything.

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You can still take someone out with 7 ops. Believe me, many of us have done it. The limit self-imposes a control on how much you kill though.

Going back to the ‘oblivion’ part though. This concept needs to be removed. PLENTY of people in IC have quit because of having their round ruined. Either pmode not working as intended (i.e. people have lost 500 planets down to like 3, in raids), or having completely their infra reduced to nothing, by being nuked multiple times.

Even if any of us think that that’s acceptable and part of gameplay, I don’t think it’s in the interest of IC right now, where we are trying to increase the player count. My thought is that IC needs to be made friendlier to new players, and less destructive where people want to just up and quit, based on something that’s happened in the game.

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Personally I would love some sort of data that displays why people leave the game. Everyone has their own ideas why they do…and they are all different.

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There will always be players wanting certain game mechanics implementing depending on which side of the fence current event are occuring. It easy to be biased one way or the other when you are giving or recieiving said issues.

A better balance certainly needs introducing. Much like an empire can be put into pmode for attacks, surely this should be the case for hard ops? maybe a time and/or limit on op amounts, much like the limit of 3 x Oh’s per 6 hours. At the moment people could be nuked and estormed to utter oblivion with no stopping the amount of damage that can be applied. Especially when you can land 20 each opper at a time with the current morale costs. This could make people leave the game, like the same way some big guy taking all the little guys planets can make them not want to play, but this has always been the case.

Its finding that balance that everyone can agree on. There needs to be some way of the small guy making the odds even. But on the other side of the coin, then are you punishing the better player by nerfing him. Its an headache for sure! You idea on the quality of life formula could fix all this and I have high hopes for this potential.

It’s all about making players not want to quit the game :smiley:

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Here is an example that got me thinking on the topic.

Pop is the most extreme, case but it does carry over to the other ops when you think about 20+ on one person.

I got 21 ops before I could possibly react, thats about 7 days negatice income, so even tho I had plenty of gc available, to build say the 7 mil addition Wiz I probably needed. On top of the build cost it would cost and additional 1.1 bil maintenance before my income would be postive on top of the existing negative income. I think most players would have just deleted and moved on as what’s the point if your entire Econ can be destroyed in a single tick, and your best case is in 7 days your income recovers.

7+3 (4 tick build time) ops would have been about 3 days lost income which is still pretty high but manageable with some preparation( if your playing pop some prep is expected)

The flip side is that 7+1 ops may not be enough to be effective when fighting multiple players and having one opper as want to block ports, PIs vision on top of hard ops.

I think a way to balance this would be around restricting the number of hard ops against an individual player.

T-1325 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks.
T-1325 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks.
T-1325 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks.
T-1323 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks.
T-1323 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks.
T-1323 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks.
T-1323 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks.
T-1323 Mass hysteria A large portion of the our citizen has gone berzerk and killed both themselves and other people, 30% of the population all over the empire died! We suspect the black magic from Apoc wizards behind this.
T-1323 Mass hysteria A large portion of the our citizen has gone berzerk and killed both themselves and other people, 30% of the population all over the empire died! We suspect the black magic from Apoc wizards behind this.
T-1323 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks.
T-1323 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks.
T-1323 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks.
T-1323 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks.
T-1323 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks.
T-1323 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks.
T-1323 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks.
T-1323 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks.
T-1323 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks.
T-1323 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks.
T-1323 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks.
T-1323 Electric storms Electric storms, casted from Apoc, are haunting our empire. Expect a lot of citizen to die in the coming weeks

If you had a fraction of the wiz the casters did, you wouldn’t have had that many spells land and he would have suffered heavy casualties from fails. The fact he landed hypno and then that many storms on one tick with how hard those spells are to cast tells me you had little to no defense. That is your fault and not the games. Once you have the negative income and then you want to build defensive units and your out of cash, that’s the intended effect. If you want it to stop, pay the pax planets and sign a nap.

@RenegadeDamon
It’s fine to disagree, but you seem to be missing the main point I am making.

There is a big difference between taking someone out for 3 days and 7 days before they have a chance to respond.

Similarly there is a big difference between 7 nukes and 22 nukes in the initial salvo on a single person.

If everyone else thinks it is fine, thats cool I can handle people not agreeing with me.

I am also unsure why you think this change would stop ops from being effective?
7 + 3 estorms still wipes out 99% of someone’s pop, it then only takes 1-2 estorms per 8 hours to keep them at negative income for all time.
That’s already pretty powerful imo?

Talking about defence amounts is almost completely irrelevant to this discussion as it’s trival to find out how much defence someone has and build more than that if you/ your alliance has anywhere near a similar income.

But for the record I had pretty good defence running between 10-20% of my networth as wizards all of the round.
Running more that that is fine if you are
going into a war and expecting to be opped, but running 30-50%+ of your NW as wizards as a standing army would be crazy if you want to grow.

Also i am running pretty high wizards now and it seems to make little difference to the success rate.

Pop has always been higher risk than CFs or resources and most players know what they are getting into when they go pop, but taking someone out of the game for a week from an initial hit doesnt seem right to me.

Lastly I based my calcs on getting a max 10 estorms and being out of action for 3 days approx as I incorrectly thought there was a cap on estorm stacks.
If everyone else doesn’t think changing ops is a good idea and wants to keep current state I will adjust my calcs in the future to take it into consideration.

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I still maintain that the easiest way to handle that is to limit how low pop can be killed down to on a planet.

then, yeah you can have your pop decimated, but assuming you get your wizzies up to stop further ops…you could be back in 3-4 days.

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This is a would help for pop, min pop amount of say 3% of total pop per planet would do it.

Still leaves the ability to throw out lots of nukes/kill science/GC/iron at a single person.
Not on the same scale as pop damage tho.

What ever happened to the 8 estorm limit?

Limits should be in place, just like they are for OH.

To answer your question @TheBigOne:

Despite Pie’s intentions at the time, the game has evolve since then to include more spec ops than ever before. While reinstating the old limits is a possibility, I think I better approach will be to make changes that allow these newer strats to continue but in a more balanced way.

Thank you, I clearly missed that part!

Honestly until a week or so ago I still thought they had.limits lol

Doubling pop takes around 12 hours

Suppose a 200 planet, 150 mill pop banker is stormed to dead. Below the recovery times:

10 mill pop left - 2,3 days recovery
1 mill pop left - 4.3 days recovery
450k pop left - 5 day recovery
100k pop left - 6,3 days recovery
50k pop left - 6,8 days recovery
1k pop left - 10,2 days recovery

Personally I find a 5 day recovery acceptable. This would mean you would need to limit storm dmg to around 10x planet size. 250 size = pop can’t be stormed below 2500 pop.

I am in favour of leaving it as using morale. Being a pax is difficult being limited to 7, for me required me to wake up at odd times during the day to continue to estorm and hypno back in the day

Your posts seem very specific.

This thread is talking about the general limitations of ops and ideas to stop things which were not originally intended. Comments like “build more wiz”, does not really help.

If you’ve been around long enough, everyone knows that a Pax can be funded to kill people’s pop. No matter what the pop or defense is. It’s how the game has worked for a long time.

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